Tim
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Reply with quote | #1 |
The more "innocent" the better. Make sure it is a parody of Fred Phelps.
On second thoughts, that is just drawing more people into the mind of Phelps. Maybe just parody Phelps outside his church. But be "nice" for television.
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WARNING contents :Fundamentalists, gun addicts, xenophobians, far right conservatives... may contain traces of nuts..
"Religions of peace" are killing us all.
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webmaster
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Reply with quote | #2 |
There is a group that organizes counter protests against Phelps. They are called Unity Boulevard [http://www.unityblvd.org/]. Baptist Watch just does not have the resources to do anything on that scale right now. Maybe one day... |
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blondofborg
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Reply with quote | #3 |
Hmm... I'd go more with something like pieces of paper, stabbed into the doors of fundie churches with a dagger, with 'Homophobia Kills!' written in something looking like blood... opinions?
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avraham1
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Reply with quote | #4 |
The last person who nailed (stabbed) something to door of a church was Martin Luther. Look how much trouble that caused.
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blondofborg
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Reply with quote | #5 |
Darl, if I can be half as fondly remembered and make half as valuable contribution a as Martin Luther, I'll be an extremely happy man.
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"If I'm going to be called a 'f*ing sinner' I'd at least like to earn the title!" - R K Milholland |
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avraham1
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Reply with quote | #6 |
I am sure that Luther is fondly remebered by some, but he wrote some rather defamatory statements about my people. Those words were so powerful that they echo down to our time. I take nothing away from what he accomplished. However, when you perform an act act public as nailing your thoughts to the door of a church there will be ramifications.
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CastleGreySkull1979
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Quote: Originally Posted by webmaster
There is a group that organizes counter protests against Phelps. They are called Unity Boulevard [http://www.unityblvd.org/]. Baptist Watch just does not have the resources to do anything on that scale right now. Maybe one day...
good for them. that is very humanitarian of them. |
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Quote: Originally Posted by avraham1
The last person who nailed (stabbed) something to door of a church was Martin Luther. Look how much trouble that caused.
That was just an urban legend. The 95 Theses were published in booklet form and distributed. They weren't nailed anywhere. |
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avraham1
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Whether they were nailed to a door, put on a billboard, or published in a pamphlet, the results were not good for Jews. Eventually, Luther published other pamphlets that were less than complimentary of Jews. Just as with the Catholic Church and Islam somewhere along the line of development the act of defaming the Jews occurs. This is not an urban legend. This is the history of of the last 200 thousand years.
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blondofborg
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Reply with quote | #10 |
Eeep, just checked this topic for the first time in months. Only just worked out you're referring to Martin Luther and his anti-semetic views.
Sorry, feel sheepish now... baaaaaeeeeh!
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"Let's just say, I knew who the surgeon was going to be, so I had a fair idea what the operation would look like." - David Hare on the Iraq invasion in 'The Vertical Hour'
"If I'm going to be called a 'f*ing sinner' I'd at least like to earn the title!" - R K Milholland |
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avraham1
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Blonde, Luther did not start out as an anti-semite, but the nature of his upbringing and his religious past made it inevitable. Jaco R. Marcus is the author of a book, The Jews in the Medieval World. In this book he translates and recounts a passage from one of Luther's later anti-semitic tracts. The passage can be found on pp. 167-169. The relevant points of Luther's views on Jews can be summed up in a few simple points.
1. They are a rejected and damned race.
2. Their synagogues should be set on fire.
3. Their homes should be destroyed.
4. "Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, cursing, and blasphemy are taught."
5. Their rabbis should be forbidden to teach.
6. Passport restrictions should be absolute. They should have no business in rural areas.
7. They should be stopped in their practice of usury. All of their valuables should be taken from them and placed in safe keeping.
8. Put all the young and strong to work in the fields and forests. So that they can "...earn their bread by the sweat of their noses...".
If some of this sounds familiar the reason is simple. This is, give or take a few points, the exact process the nazi's used against European Jews. They started by removing rights such as citizenship. Then they gradually eliminated areas of employment and business. The core facilities that supported Jewish life were destoyed, and the houses of study were eliminated. Then the people young and old were set to killing labor, the firing squad, or the gas chamber. Luther could not have envisioned that his words might contribute to such a crime. This shows us the power of words. Some 500 years after Luther wrote the words I have briefly described they were used for one of the greatest crimes in history.
Words can either be a salve to the body for healing. Or they can be a sword that when unsheathed has no mercy upon its object of viloence. Xianity is still replete with attitudes such as these. Only when Xianity renounces publicly and for good its historic and contemporary antisemitism can it purge itself of this poison. Until that time I still am wary of Xianity and unfortunately many Xians.
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PatPace
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Reply with quote | #12 |
Avrahaml, Did you know that I am a Jew also?
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DonCoates
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Reply with quote | #13 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Pattie
Avrahaml, Did you know that I am a Jew also? 
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PatPace
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Reply with quote | #14 |
Yes. A Messianic Jew.
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"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" -Ronald Reagan
PRAY FOR AMERICA, THE LOONIES HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"
by Thomas Jefferson |
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DonCoates
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Reply with quote | #15 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Pattie
... Messianic Jew.
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PatPace
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Reply with quote | #16 |
A Messianic Jew is a Jewish person who believes that Yeshua (Jesus) is their Messiah. Some people think that a Jewish person who believes in Jesus is no longer a Jew. But what could possibly be more Jewish than believing in the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua?
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"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" -Ronald Reagan
PRAY FOR AMERICA, THE LOONIES HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"
by Thomas Jefferson |
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DonCoates
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Reply with quote | #17 |
Quote: Originally Posted by PatPace
A Messianic Jew is a Jewish person who believes that Yeshua (Jesus) is their Messiah. Some people think that a Jewish person who believes in Jesus is no longer a Jew. But what could possibly be more Jewish than believing in the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua?
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PatPace
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Reply with quote | #18 |
Well you did ask.
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"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" -Ronald Reagan
PRAY FOR AMERICA, THE LOONIES HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"
by Thomas Jefferson |
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Bullwinkle
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Reply with quote | #19 |
Quote: Originally Posted by PatPace
Yes. A Messianic Jew.
Pat: I'm confused.
You're a Messianic Jew, as in: you celebrate Shabbat beginning at sundown on Friday and ending at sundown on Saturday; plus Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Succoth, Passover; plus studying the Talmud and the Mishnah?
(It's not a trick question: I'm just curious and I'm confused. I thought you were a Baptist.)
Note to Avraham1: do you know where I could go about getting a copy of the Talmud; and is there a guide for Talmudic study?
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Romans 8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Even as it is written, "For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter." No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. |
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DonCoates
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Reply with quote | #20 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Bullwinkle
Pat: I'm confused.
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PatPace
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Reply with quote | #21 |
Bulwinkle, I thought you would understand what a Messianic jew is. We are not under the Law as Messianic Jews. Our roots are Jewish, but our Mesiah is Jesus. We are under the new covenant.
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"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" -Ronald Reagan
PRAY FOR AMERICA, THE LOONIES HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"
by Thomas Jefferson |
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avraham1
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Reply with quote | #22 |
Pat a messianic Jew is a logical absurdity. To say that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah is to fly in the face of almost two thousand years of written and oral law from Judaism. On more practical grounds it is just damned insulting for anyone to claim Judaism and Jesus in the same breath. Do what you want and claim what you want for yourself, but please do not say that messianic judaism is anymore than a shill for the continuing efforts of mainstream Xianity to convert the needed number of Jews to try and cause the false return of a false messiah.
Jesus is not messiah, he is not the son of G-d. He is a dead Galilean carpenter from the early Roman Empire in Judea with good press.
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PatPace
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Reply with quote | #23 |
So you say, avrahaml. I know better.
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"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" -Ronald Reagan
PRAY FOR AMERICA, THE LOONIES HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"
by Thomas Jefferson |
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Bullwinkle
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Reply with quote | #24 |
Quote: Originally Posted by PatPace
Bulwinkle, I thought you would understand what a Messianic jew is. We are not under the Law as Messianic Jews. Our roots are Jewish, but our Mesiah is Jesus. We are under the new covenant.
A Messianic Jew is a person who believes that Jesus is the Messiah (Yeshua), but observes the Jewish holidays, dietary laws, Shabbat (observed on Saturday), and uses the Torah, the Talmud, and the Mishnah as their Scriptures.
__________________
Romans 8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Even as it is written, "For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter." No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. |
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PatPace
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Reply with quote | #25 |
Not really Bullwinkle. The messianic jew is a jew by birth, but a Christian by Re-birth. We accept the teachings of Christ.
__________________
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" -Ronald Reagan
PRAY FOR AMERICA, THE LOONIES HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"
by Thomas Jefferson |
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avraham1
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Reply with quote | #26 |
No Pat, a person born of a Jewish mother is a Jew. A Jew who converts to Xianity is a heretical Jew. Just because that person undergoes a baptism, is "born-again", or whatever spiritual exercise flavor of the month is current does not change the fact they are a Jew by blood, tribe, and adherence to the Covenant of Sinai. Some messianic groups require adherence to Jewish riutals and study others are looser on the requirements. Whatever the situation or the individual status it doesn't change the facts. A messianic Jew is just a Xian in phylacteries and tallis. You can put a kippah on a pig, but the pig is still not kosher. That is not a metaphor or an allusion to any person or group it is the bluntest and most direct statement of my positon. Believing that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah makes you Xian or a heretical Jew no matter your birth.
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Bullwinkle
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Reply with quote | #27 |
Quote: Originally Posted by PatPace
Not really Bullwinkle. The messianic jew is a jew by birth, but a Christian by Re-birth. We accept the teachings of Christ.
Let's ask someone who'd know firsthand: the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America
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Romans 8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Even as it is written, "For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter." No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. |
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PatPace
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Reply with quote | #28 |
Avrahaml, I understand you view point. When Christianity started spreading in the Jewish community after Christ Death and Resurrection, the Messianic Jews were ostricized from their own communitys and branded as heretics much like you said. That does not change the fact that the term Messianic Jew is incorrect. I only means that you don't like it. I have Jewish blood in my body and that is unquestionable. But I am also washed in the blood of Jesus Christ and have been set free from the bonds of the law.
__________________
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" -Ronald Reagan
PRAY FOR AMERICA, THE LOONIES HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"
by Thomas Jefferson |
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Bullwinkle
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Reply with quote | #29 |
Quote: Originally Posted by avraham1
No Pat, a person born of a Jewish mother is a Jew. A Jew who converts to Xianity is a heretical Jew. Just because that person undergoes a baptism, is "born-again", or whatever spiritual exercise flavor of the month is current does not change the fact they are a Jew by blood, tribe, and adherence to the Covenant of Sinai. Some messianic groups require adherence to Jewish riutals and study others are looser on the requirements. Whatever the situation or the individual status it doesn't change the facts. A messianic Jew is just a Xian in phylacteries and tallis. You can put a kippah on a pig, but the pig is still not kosher. That is not a metaphor or an allusion to any person or group it is the bluntest and most direct statement of my positon. Believing that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah makes you Xian or a heretical Jew no matter your birth.
This may be a stupid question (and please excuse the ignorance), but if one converts to Judaism and has parents who are non-Jews, is that person considered legitimately Jewish?
Let's say the person who converted to Judaism married a woman who was not Jewish. Would their children be considered Jewish, or how would the children be considered within the Jewish community?
(Trust me, I'm really not a part of Aryan Nation or a neo-Nazi. I'm just curious, that's all... *G*)
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Romans 8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Could oppression, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Even as it is written, "For your sake we are killed all day long. We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter." No, in all these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. |
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Darren
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Reply with quote | #30 |
Picket my church, It is all about the truth. Homosexuals are evil and GOD does indeed hate them. God hates all worker of iniquity.
Platteville Baptist Church.
Platteville Colorado.
 You are not man enough to protest a real church of GOD, you sodomite hell bound fools.
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John 3:16 |
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blondofborg
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Reply with quote | #31 |
Actually Darren it's more a case of most of us having better ways to spend our Sunday morning.
**Sleeps in with his boyfriend**
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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"If I'm going to be called a 'f*ing sinner' I'd at least like to earn the title!" - R K Milholland |
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Darren
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Reply with quote | #32 |
And one day you and your sodomite boyfreind will wake up in HELL and will brun in darkness forever.
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John 3:16 |
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DonCoates
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Reply with quote | #33 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Darren
And one day you and your sodomite boyfreind will wake up in HELL and will brun in darkness forever.
Tell us what reward will come your way for being a lying sack o'fundie?
The Don
(Reader: This ought to be fun. You see, Darren's been dishonest about more than just his representations about Bullwinkle or how he got banned from TruthTree. Will he face the music or flee?  )
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Darren
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Reply with quote | #34 |
I never lied about Bullwinkle on truth tree it was just my word agaist bullwinkies. Truth tree is run by evil sodomites of couse they are going to believe bullwinkies lies.
Well I have warned most of the day care centers in Bullwinkles town about his little pro :nono.
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John 3:16 |
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DonCoates
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Reply with quote | #35 |
Quote: Originally Posted by DimwitI never lied about Bullwinkle on truth tree it was just my word agaist bullwinkies. Truth tree is run by evil sodomites of couse they are going to believe bullwinkies lies.
Well I have warned most of the day care centers in Bullwinkles town about his little pro :nono.
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Togglesblock
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Actually martain Luther dod not nail anything to a church door. There is no historical proof that he did. 
06/06/03 at 03:32 AM 
